Why I’m Leaving Teachable

Andréa Jones (00:00):
Today we are diving into something that is a little outside of the realm of norm when it comes to community building. So typically on this show I talk about building communities on social media, but today I'm switching my social media hat for my community builder hat in my paid community inside of the Savvy Social School. And I'm deep diving into the reasons why I decided to move platforms away from Teachable, which was the tech that supported the Savvy Social School, and towards Circle, which is our new community focused platform. Let's get into it.

Intro (00:47):
Welcome to The Savvy Social Podcast, the show that blends stories and strategies to help businesses create engaged and profitable online communities using the unique power of social media. And now, your host, Andréa Jones.

Andréa Jones (01:05):
I'm really excited for today's conversation because my guiding light, my word of the year is community. And I didn't realize that it would mean this big change when I made that my word of the year this year. But the reason that I chose the word community is because I really wanna focus on the amazing people right in front of me. Now, that's not to say I'm not out here, get new business cuz y'all see me on social media. We are posting a lot. We're talking about our offers, we're talking about our community. We are encouraging new people to join. And my time personally, as the founder of this company, is spent on how can we make things better for our members in the Savvy Social School, and how can we make things better for our clients that we serve on the agency as well. So as I was exploring this concept and how we can make things better, I was looking back through some of the feedback we got in our exit survey.

(02:04):
So when someone leaves the Savvy Social School, we ask them why they left, and then we do a survey for our members every year as well, sometimes twice a year to ask them, you know, what can we improve about the program and the tech aspect where we host our program, we were getting a lot of resistance and it took me a lot of kind of like mental work mindset work to accept that feedback because I actually really love how everything is set up. I love it. I love how I can find everything, but honestly, I made the thing. So of course I love it because that's how I made it. And even asking my team, you know, what are the challenges you're having? What are the feedback? Especially when a new team member comes aboard, you know, asking them, how do we make this thing better?

(02:49):
And the thing that was coming up time and time again, was the technological components of finding what they were looking for. And more specifically, people would say, there's too much here. And when someone says there's too much, like, there's way too much. That means there's no organization for the content, and they feel like they're just thrown into the deep end. And that's not a feeling that I want people to have. So before I dive into that, I also wanna talk about though why I chose Teachable, because I still do like and recommend it to this day. It's not like I'm anti teachable, but I started my first course in 2016. I launched Visually Savvy, which was the first course that I ever created. It was how to use Canva graphics. And y'all think about this, 2016 using Canva wasn't really that popular. In fact, a lot of my colleagues looked down at me because I didn't know Photoshop.

(03:44):
And I still, I mean, I know how to do some things, but like, it's gonna take me a minute. And a lot of you tubing <laugh> to figure it out, right? So I like the Adobe products were way too complicated. So I latch onto Canva early on in my career, use it predominantly for all of my clients. And then I had people asking me, you know, how can we make this more accessible and approachable? And started Visually Savvy in 2016. And I built that course on Teachable. I looked at other platforms. I think Thinkific was there at the time. But those were the two main ones. It was like Teachable and Thinkific. I looked at the differences, the pros and cons, and I went with Teachable and I loved how easy it was to set it up. So I started with Visually Savvy.

(04:32):
And then when I was selling that course for about two years, very lightly, I think I made maybe 30 sales of the course. And then in 2018 launched the Savvy Social School. And with the Savvy Social School launch, I decided to move off of Teachable and onto a custom-built WordPress website. Now, I found the Membership Geeks who I adore and love, they were clients of ours at one point, and I love how their program is laid out. I loved every single piece of it. Their website was beautiful, the community was amazing and is amazing. I'm still a member to this day. And the way that they teach memberships is on a WordPress website using plugins and kind of creating your own custom experience. And I absolutely loved every piece of that. So I hit the ground running, built my own WordPress website, and it was great, y'all, I actually really enjoyed it.

(05:30):
It looked clean, but my members were having so many issues with it. Number one, I got a few people saying, Hey, I tried to check out and I can't check out. I messed something up. In that process of creating the checkout pages to where some people could not go through the checkout process, it looked like it was processing, the payment never went through. They were scared to hit it again because they didn't wanna get charged again. And I'm glad some people reached out to me and explain this issue. But in the back of my mind, I was thinking how many other people tried this and didn't reach out. Like I completely lost trust with those people. The other thing with the WordPress site is because it's a membership site, it was completely locked down, so you had to have a password to get in. I had so many members having trouble logging in for our live events.

(06:18):
So I would embed videos into the website for the live events. And there was, there's quite a number of people who would reach out to me and say, Hey, I tried to make this live event, but I just couldn't get past a login screen. And I know, again, something that I messed up completely. The third thing was our community. I again fast and built this community using another plugin and something about the connection to the community and the website wasn't working properly, <laugh>. And so there was these things that were happening all at the same time. So I was on WordPress for less than six months and moved back to Teachable because my members gave me feedback that it wasn't working for them. And Teachable was easy. I loved how easy it was to upload content on the WordPress site. I had to, so had to have so many other like, plugins, plugins and added things.

(07:07):
Teachable is just one thing. It's like I can upload my videos, my PDFs and go. I also loved how easy it was to sell, especially internationally. So being that I'm in Canada and I charge in US dollars, I run a lot of my business in US Dollars unless you're a Canadian client. That was easy. But then as I started getting Canadian clients, having to charge Canadian taxes became very challenging and Teachable does all of that for me. So they charge all the taxes they need to charge so I don't have to worry about it. They remit it to the various government entities. It's just not a problem that I have to think about. And I loved it. And that's honestly one of the reasons why I stuck with Teachable so many years because they handled all of that. They also handled the affiliate payments.

(07:55):
So if someone was promoting the Savvy Social School, we have 50% off ongoing affiliate agreements with all of our affiliates. So our current price is just under a hundred dollars. So that means you're gonna get 50 bucks for every person that you recommend for every month that they're in the school. So it's a pretty lucrative deal, and I don't wanna have to manage all of that. So Teachable would manage that from end to end. They would have all of the affiliate tracking and then they pay out all of the affiliates as well. So at this point, I've been with Teachable for 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, <laugh> going on eight years. So almost as long as I've run this business, I've been using Teachable to host my courses and my membership program. So it has been a really tough decision for me to actually examine. Is Teachable working for me?

(08:55):
And I've known for years that it wasn't perfect, but the more content that we add to the program, the less I wanna move all of that <laugh>. The more history that we have there with our affiliate payments and our, our our student payments, I don't wanna have to move that. And then also I've been working with Teachable. So if you're on my email list, you've seen this on social media perhaps. I've hosted workshops for them, I've spoken at their virtual summits. I've been on their podcast, they've been on their YouTube channel, on their social media. Like I, I create content with them as like a, an influencer of sorts. I don't, I don't know how to describe it, but they pay me to teach workshops that I've been on their, their podcast. So I feel like we have a relationship and that makes it even harder to make this decision.

(09:53):
But like I said, the beginning of this year, our guiding light as a company is the word community. And if my community's saying it's not working, I have to examine it no matter what my personal feelings about the platform are. So here is specifically what wasn't working. Number one, everyone was overwhelmed. So at the beginning of this year, we did create a roadmap. Here's what to do in your first 30 days, your next 60 days in troubleshooting things. If you're having low engagement here are, here's what you need to look at. If you're not feeling productive, here's what you need to look at. So we created these roadmaps for our members, again, based on things that the membership geeks teach, which I love them, Kelly and Mike are amazing. But people were still saying they were having trouble and they, the biggest thing that came up was like, can we get a search bar <laugh>?

(10:46):
Can we search for what we're looking for? So for example, if I need to update my LinkedIn banner cover photo thing, can I type in LinkedIn cover photo or LinkedIn banner and like get just that lesson? So we went down that rabbit hole, like finding a tool, third party tool that I was paying for to have a search box in our website. And that stopped working. It wasn't combing the website properly so people could not find what they were searching for. And when we have a membership site that covers all of the platforms, Facebook, Instagram TikTok, LinkedIn, all of them even, we have even have a course on Clubhouse from when that was popular back in the day. So when people say, we have a lot of content, we have a lot of content. And then when they say they wanna be able to search that content, I'm listening.

(11:36):
So that was the first thing that was a big thing for us, searchable content. The second reason Teachable wasn't working for me and for my team was the analytics. I have no way of easily calculating something like Member Retention. Teachable is a course platform that you can do memberships on, but they're not a membership platform. So measuring, you know, month over month retention, measuring things like average, you know, member value I you can't do that. And teachable, I would have to download CSV files and manipulate the data to be able to get those numbers. And even the downloaded file, it, it took some finessing because the way that they export content just isn't a, isn't right. For instance, if someone's paying $97 a month in the spreadsheet was a 9,700 instead of $97. So I was like, I had to go in and edit that every time.

(12:36):
<Laugh> I'm sure there's an easier way than that. And I looked at so many third party tools again to try to find this. And so I just, I can figure it out, but I only look at it probably once a quarter to try to figure it out when it's something I wanna look at monthly. And I reached out to Teachable's team and they put it on their list as something that's important, but nobody else must be talking about it. So it's not happening. They're focused on other things. And then the big one that happened this year, it is their customer service specifically around the increasing costs of Teachable. So I don't mind if a company increased their costs, I increased my prices. In fact, I encourage people to increase their prices. But the way that Teachable as a company approached this was not okay with me.

(13:26):
And to me, it was a signal that it's not a company that I feel comfortable with and I already was feeling nervous about it. So the first one, I'm actually looking at an email here was an email that they sent on May 10th around fees increasing. So you can check out with PayPal or Stripe and depending on where you're located, there are different fees for that person. So typically when you're running a business, credit card fees around 4% is pretty normal. Some of these fees are going up to five and a half percent plus an extra 50 cents per transaction, which for someone who runs a company that is international, that's a huge increase in fees in my opinion. They sent this email on May 10th and said updates are taking place after around July 25th. That's not a lot of warning.

(14:32):
And there's no way to opt out or opt in or whatever. It's just that it is what it is. So for me it felt like a little bit of a cold interaction, you know, like I was like, oh, okay, fees are increasing, that's fine. All right, fine, whatever. It was at that point in May, my team and I had already been looking at other options that we decided to make the switch for the fees increasing. If we're gonna pay the fees, we might as well run through our own payment processor, which we can do through Teachable, but it was like a huge, we already were starting the conversation of changing tech, which I'll, I'll talk a little bit about that in this tech. But that was the first red flag. I do wanna talk about. Another one that I just got, June 8th is when this one came in.

(15:20):
But I knew that this was happening based on some other people that I know in the industry who are also on Teachable. So someone I know, I wanna say it was Lizzie Goddard posted in their community about how Teachable was changing their pro plan. And on the pro plan, you can have unlimited products. So they have courses, they have digital downloadables and they have coaching. And if you're on the pro plan, which is $200 a month, you can have unlimited products. So for me, this makes sense. If I'm paying that amount, I should have unlimited products. But they started emailing people on the Pro plan earlier this year saying that they're gonna max it at 50 products. So we're going from unlimited to 50. That's a huge change, especially for someone like me who runs a membership site and have a lot of products.

(16:15):
Way more than 50, I think we have like 150. This is a huge blow. So I knew that that was coming, but y'all, I prepaid for the year for Teachable. So I thought that my pro plan would last through till the end of this year. I paid in December for the year, but I got an email June 8th that said starting August 1st, the Pro plan will only include 50 published products of each type for a total of 200 published products, <laugh>. So already I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm glad I decided to make this change because this would be a huge disruption. Now I will say this, even though they said starting August 3rd or August 1st, they did put me on a new plan called Pro Plus. Okay? So they have a new plan coming out called Pro Plus, but Pro Plus only allows you 200 products of each type.

(17:26):
So I don't have 200 products of each type, I believe, yet. I haven't counted them, but they're capping me already at 200 products. So for example, if I wanted, you know, TikTok Savvy and Facebook savvy, those are two separate courses, two separate products. So I have that. Then I have all of our bundles. So we have bundles, you know, done for you, content for Life coaches done for you, content for artists, done for you, content for freelancers. Like we have all of those separate bundles, so they're separate products and teachable. You could see how this would add up. Now they did say they're automatically moving me to Pro Plus at no additional cost for the remaining of the billing period, which for me is till the end of this year. And then they're gonna give me a free month of Pro Plus, and then they're gonna give me 20% off coupon for I don't know how long.

(18:20):
So at this point I'm like, okay, so now I have a completely different plan that's gonna cost more, that is limited on what I can do. So already, I'm, I'm starting to think I'm glad I made this decision and it's just the communication around it to me is just like a little bit cold when you're, when you're making these changes especially for someone who, you know, like from the Savvy Social School, we have over a hundred thousand dollars of revenue every year running through Teachable. And it's not even accounting. Anything outside of Teachable. I feel like as a customer, I should be treated a little bit more nicely. And I love, like I said, I love Teachable, I love the team that I have contact with. They've been an amazing resource for me for now, but we've outgrown it. So what are we gonna do? Let's take a quick break and when we come back, I'm gonna talk to you about the alternatives and then why we ended up choosing Circle. We'll be right back.

(19:28):
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(20:43):
Okay, so alternatives. I wanted to go back to a custom-built WordPress website. Y'all, I really loved how that website looked, and at the time it was just me <laugh> and I did not have a team helping me with the school at all. So now that I have a team, we actually have a web developer on staff now who is very fluent in WordPress. She could help us with this custom-built WordPress experience. I used a membership plugin in the past called MemberPress, but we were looking at one called Access Ally. And Access Ally is such an amazing tool, y'all, it is so custom. And one of our past clients, Neapolitan Creative, actually works with memberships specifically building out custom experiences. And she has built memberships for our clients like Brenda Lomeli, Kara Loewentheil. She's built out custom experiences for our past clients.

(21:46):
So I knew how amazing Access Ally was custom built through WordPress and I was really convinced I wanted to work with Neapolitan Creative on this project. So I started down that path. I met with Samantha, who runs Neopolitan Creative. I got my team involved. We did several brainstorming sessions on like, what do we want this new experience to look like? And ultimately at the end of the day, we chose not to go down this path for a number of reasons. The main one is that it's very expensive. It would cost tens of thousands of dollars initially to move tech over for an experience that may or may not be better. We don't know. Not only that initial payment, it would be more expensive ongoing. And like I said, we, the Savvy Social School makes over a hundred thousand dollars a year. Yes, but I also gotta pay my staff and we have a lot of expenses already on that.

(22:47):
So it's I want it to be more profitable of course, but it's just something that I'm very hesitant about moving forward with because not only do we have to pay the setup costs also if you have a WordPress built experience, you need video hosting. And we have a ton of videos. I can't even tell you. Like all of our courses have videos. We have hours and hours and hours of videos, plus I've been running this membership since 2018. What about our archive of our live trainings? All of that would have to go on video hosting. So we're looking at Vimeo, Wistia, you know, places where you can host videos, they have monthly fees associated with them, plus the cost and time of moving those videos over. Then we looked at community hosting. So last year we moved our community off of a Facebook group into Circle and our community members love Circle.

(23:46):
Access Ally does have their own community function similar to a forum, but it's very bare bones. So I wasn't sure if I wanted to make that switch from something that's, you know, Circle's so robust and it's very clean and my members like it changing community again. So then we would still have to pay for Circle and Access Ally. Then we get into the question of payment processing which I purchased Thrivecart and I actually really like so we would probably keep that. And then I got into the big question of International payments and almost halted that process because I was testing out Thrivecart and using QuickBooks and like matching payments and trying to figure out how we were gonna make sure we were charging tax appropriately. It was a hot mess. And I was like, you know what, stop <laugh>.

(24:39):
So we stopped that for a second, and then I met with my accountant and my team and we figured out a way to move forward with Thrivecart. So Thrivecart was a one-time fee community hosting. We were on Circle video hosting, we'd have to look at something, Vimeo, Wistia, we were looking at Searchie, which is another one. And then we'd have to pay for Access Ally as well as custom-built on WordPress. And it would be a ton of tech time for my team. So while we do have a web developer, her hours, I don't even know if she would have enough availability to maintenance mode this for the amount of content that we produce, or if it's something simple enough where she could teach my assistant to move forward. Like I'm just unsure <laugh> of that whole process. And I could see the dollar starting to add up to way more than what profit we're making on this side of the business.

(25:35):
Okay. So all of that said and done. We decided to move to Circle. Now this decision was inspired by my amazing community coordinator, Kristina, if y'all are in the School in the past six months, you've seen Kristina. She just came on board in December and she was the one who was like, what about Circle? They have courses. And I always dismissed it because I, I am in other Circle communities, I've seen their courses and I thought that you could only have everyone in the community have to have access to all that's available. And we have smaller products that we have broken off that people would just need access to those products. So I assumed that we couldn't do that, but the more I started researching Circle, the more I realized it would be an amazing home for our members. First of all, we're already there as a community, okay?

(26:34):
Like we made that move last July. Our member engagement has increased since we made that move. And we just, how searchable it is. It's, it's not on Facebook. So we're not at the whims of the algorithm. We have our community hosted there, we have our live event calendar, we have conversations, it's just really clean. And they have a mobile app. So our members are able to take that, their community on the go. Now, when I joined Circle last July, they did not have courses. They added courses, I wanna say earlier this year, early 2023 to everybody. So this is a relatively new feature, so it's something that I hadn't really explored. So I started looking in some of the other Circle groups that I'm in. Primarily I am in Jay Clouse's Creator Science Lab. And so I started going through some of his course material and was like, this is amazing.

(27:31):
This is great. I didn't realize how clean these courses looked and how everything was kind of integrated all in the same platform. So I started falling in love with how Circle was organized. I love that everything is all in one. I joined several Circle communities since then and have just really loved the experience. And even toggling between Circle communities was super easy. I have experience with similar platforms in the past, like Mighty Networks and it's not as intuitive, I find it's just kind of cluttered. Circle works for me, works for my brain. I also love that all of the events are in app and the added in-app live streaming this year. So then my mind is going to, we don't have to have another tool, which is Zoom for hosting our live sessions. We could do in-app live streaming in the community.

(28:24):
Now I have tested it out. I will say sometimes the audio and video lags in the recording for some reason. So I'm not fully committed to that. Plus I do love my Zoom, like, you know, touch up my appearance feature <laugh>. So they don't have that either. So I'm not fully committed to in-app live streaming, but I like that it's a feature and it's something that they're working on improving. So again, all in one, I love that they have a member directory. This is something that some of our members have asked for. It's not been a high priority to us because of the amount of work on our end to create something like that. And we would have to update it every time a member would leave or come on. Or how do we mark who's an active member, Circle has that no problem, done and dusted.

(29:11):
So I also like the improvements that Circle is making to their platform. So for a little bit of like insider t the people who founded Circle used to work at Teachable. So there is some echoes there. And the reason we ended up going with Circle is because of their integration with Teachable. We, you know, you can have a single sign on if someone creates a Teachable account, they use the same login with Circle. So we liked that integration. We've now since severed the ties cuz we're, we've moved over to Circle. But the experience of, you know, the ease of uploading videos and all that, that stuff that I loved about Teachable is available in Circle as well. You know, they host videos, they host all of our images, all of our PDFs, like it's not, I don't have to have separate <laugh> separate platforms for all of those.

(30:05):
And they started releasing some new features. So just right before recording this, they announced their new AI features, which is fun a lot of course products have this already where, you know, you can ask the course AI to, I think Teachable has this now they help you outline your product. So I'm creating a course about this topic, help me write an outline so they have artificial intelligence doing that. But what I love about Circles announcement today is auto transcripts, ugh, it just like sealed the deal for me, even though we've already moved over all half of our stuff. To be able to have transcripts automatically generated for the videos that we upload is amazing. It's something that we're already committed to this year. All of our new content will have transcripts with it. So to have that built into the platform was just like a chef kiss moment.

(31:00):
So as you can see, I'm very excited about this move to Circle for all of the reasons I mentioned, but also it's gonna reduce the cost. It it's, I'm paying for it anyways, <laugh>. So now I, once I make the move, I'll stop paying for Teachable or maybe go on a smaller package. It, I may have a couple products over there still, like our free course is still on that platform and things like that. Some of our individual products are still over there. And then potential reduced cost for things like Zoom, things like that. So I'm really loving the Circle experience. Now, I will say not a hundred percent perfect. I, I have to take off my roses colored glasses just for one momento per award because it's not perfect in every way. So like I said, we have an amazing search element now that their AI is now vastly improved, but some things are still a little bit harder to find through search, but it's like 10 million times better than it was what it was before.

(32:08):
The thing is with Search, because it has a community component, it's searching community posts as well. So you can't just say I wanna search courses for instance. At least you can't do that yet. So if you search for, you know, LinkedIn profile banner, you're gonna get someone posting about their own banner and you'll also get our course material. The other thing is I am on Thrivecart now, so I'm not using Circles checkout process which does complicate things a bit or a lot bit if I was using Circle's checkout. I actually think they have some limitations that it just didn't work for our setup. But if you can make it work, I think it's a lot cleaner experience for you and your members. So I have to use Zapier to tie everything together. It's just like automation tool. So if someone checks out through Thrivecart, they get tagged in Convertkit, which is my email marketing platform, and then Zapier takes that tag and I tell it people with this tag, it added to these elements in Circle.

(33:13):
And then if someone unsubscribes, it's that process in reverse. So not quite clean and it's still not perfect for some reason. So again, this is where my team and I have to work on as we fully make the switch. So there's some things that are still manual that we haven't automated yet. However, those two things aside, I am absolutely loving the Circle experience. We've also made it some other changes along with this just to kind of clean up everything. So my mentorship program for social media managers used to be called the Thrive Mentorship Program. But based on member feedback, we really want to closely align it with the school. So now it's called Savvy Social School Pro. So our Pro members are professionals in the space, freelancers, agencies who want to scale up their business and do it in a way that meets their integrity and matches their lifestyle.

(34:12):
And so Pro members also get access to the Savvy Social School and then some. So more business clarity calls with me, one-on-one touchpoints. They have monthly accountability calls, bonus lessons, all of that. So Pro is more like an upgrade to the Savvy Social School or making that tie a lot cleaner. We're also making it a lot clearer that if you're in pro, not only do you get access to the Savvy Social School, but your entire team gets access as well. Which is great because I don't want, you know, if you're a business owner running a digital marketing agency and you add on LinkedIn services, you don't necessarily have to learn all the ins and outs of LinkedIn, assign it to a team member, they come in the School, they get all the updates. So we've made that switch more apparent. And so that's live.

(34:59):
Now if you go to my website, you'll see Savvy Social School Pro if you're in the program and see the word pro. And then we're also updating all of our marketing and our landing pages. This is something that I may need to do a whole nother podcast episode on, so please let me know if y'all are interested in the like, topics outside of social media. But we are updating all of our marketing. I am going through a program right now, which I may talk about later. I don't know, it feels cryptic, but where we're learning about just not even learning, it's like friendly reminders of like marketing tactics to increase revenue. Things like order bumps and upsells. It's something that I just never did before. And so now we're doing it <laugh>. We're taking all of the years worth of products that we have available and making it easier for people to say yes to purchasing them.

(36:00):
And I didn't do it previously because it felt kind of silly, but honestly, the more I think about how I use things, if someone's like, you bought this thing, but you wanna add on this thing for a little bit extra, I'll go, okay, if I really wanted, if I didn't, I'm good, no. And I wouldn't think anything negatively about the person asking. So mindset shift there. If you wanna hear more about how we're doing that, I can definitely do a whole nother podcast episode or maybe even a YouTube video around that. But that is all for this big old change that we're doing. Speaking of YouTube videos, I am going to be, if you're listening to this live before June 30th, I'm gonna be hosting a live stream on YouTube, which will be our first tour of our brand new Circle community. So head on over to youtube.com/onlinedrea online d r e a or you can search onlinedrea on YouTube and find my channel and subscribe because I will be doing a live demo.

(36:59):
I'll be doing lots of giveaways during this live demo as well of our brand new platform. It's Social Media Day on June 30th. So we're just gonna have some fun with it to celebrate Social Media Day. And I'm excited to show off all of the hard work that we're doing. So youtube.com/onlinedrea to find that and subscribe and you'll get the notifications when we release the date and all of that.

(37:25):
Thank y'all for hanging out with me on this little bit of a different episode. It was fun to talk about and I'm excited for next week's episodes. I'll see you then. Bye for now.