Mastering Instagram Marketing in 2025 with Michelle Gifford

Andréa Jones [00:00:00]:
There's a little rumor going around in the Internet space that it's too crowded. And today I have Michelle Guilford on the show to talk about how you can stand out despite the crowding that's happening in our lovely Internet spaces, especially our favorite Instagram. So we'll get into that and more in the 363rd episode of the Mindful Marketing Podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. Riverside is the all in one podcast recording and editing tool that I use for this right here show. I use it to edit not only the audio and the video, it is like Chef's Kiss magical, making the entire process so, so easy. Plus, I love their Magic AI clips. Their little AI robot in the background pulls out the most impactful moments of the episodes without me having to comb through and do it myself.

Andréa Jones [00:00:50]:
Resizes them for social media. So those vertical videos you see on TikTok and Reels, those all come from Magic AI inside of Riverside. It's literally one click. It spits out 10 clips. I pick the best one and away I go. Saves me so much time. If you want to get on the Riverside train, check it out today, the links in the show notes and make sure to use my code DREA D R E A at checkout to get 15% off your membership. Michelle, welcome to the show.

Michelle Guilford [00:01:18]:
Hey, thank you so much for having me. This is going to be a good conversation. I'm excited.

Andréa Jones [00:01:23]:
I'm excited we were talking about before that. I'm just nosy, so I'm excited to be like, so what you really doing? I'm thrilled to have this conversation, but just to kind of frame and set the stage for everyone listening, give us like the 30, 60 second spiel about you and your business.

Michelle Guilford [00:01:39]:
Sure. I am an Instagram marketing and social media strategist, so. And I have a marketing agency where we do it for you and I also am teaching it and I'm also building my own brand. So I try to hit it at every side. So I'm, I am helping people who are like far along. Right. And we're doing it for them in our agency and, and then I'm teaching people who are starting and growing. So I am deeply entrenched every day in Instagram and where people are struggling with Instagram and what's working.

Michelle Guilford [00:02:08]:
So I'm excited to, I'm excited to dive in.

Andréa Jones [00:02:11]:
Yeah, me too. Because I so my background for listeners and for YouTube. Michelle. I also used to owned a social media agency and of course I teach social media as well. And like, it's one of those things where we have job security because it's always changing. And also, like, don't try to learn this for yourself. Like, this is literally our job. So come to us, get the info, get the details.

Andréa Jones [00:02:33]:
So tell me, you know, with Instagram, especially here, now in 2025, it, there are a lot of, shall we say, trends happening. So I want to start the conversation with, you know, someone coming into this. They're looking at the scope, they're looking at the landscape of Instagram and they're like, how do I balance all of this? I've got the trending content and I gotta, I don't know, talk about my business. So what are some of the steps that you have your clients and customers think about when they're approaching Instagram today?

Michelle Guilford [00:03:03]:
Sure. So one of the things that is, that will completely change how you show up on Instagram is to realize that different pieces of content have different goals. So if we know that, and I'll dive in just a little bit, but if we know that, then we don't have to stress out if this one doesn't perform well, doesn't get as many views, or if this one does because we have goals. So I like to break up my content into the attract, nurture, sell method, which is what I teach, it's what my agency does. But like, we're going to create some content to attract new people in. We're also going to create some contract content to nurture people. And then of course we're going to sell too and to realize that different pieces of content have different, different goals. So maybe those trends are what we jump on to attract new people in.

Michelle Guilford [00:03:50]:
And then we've really got to establish ourself as the expert as well as, like, get people connected to us. And so that would be more nurture content. And then we have cell content, which would be like testimonials or, or maybe just looking at like, look, someone, we did this for the client and now they have this. Or showing if you're a designer or something like that, where you're actually showing what you do and asking people to buy.

Andréa Jones [00:04:15]:
Do you think there's a brand that like, trends don't work for at all?

Michelle Guilford [00:04:19]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's absolutely true. So I don't think trends are for everyone. I think that you can do trending audio that's, you know, just in the background that doesn't necessarily make you play one way or the other that can help you. But as far as trends, like, you have to look at your Brand and. And make sure. Like, I always look at resonance. Like, will this resonate with my audience? So you have people that are.

Michelle Guilford [00:04:46]:
Maybe I should clarify, but when you're talking about trends, do you mean, like, people are doing this dance move or whatever?

Andréa Jones [00:04:53]:
Yeah. Or even, like, memes and stuff? Like, every time it's like the Grammys or the Oscars or even, like, the Olympics, it's like everyone and their mom is posting a mem. Sometimes I'm like, okay, yeah, I totally can hop on this, but most of the time, it's not for me. So I'm always curious how people are approaching these. And, like, how do we decide if it is for me or if it isn't?

Michelle Guilford [00:05:14]:
Yeah. So I look at timing and resonance. Those are the two things that I think about. So if you. If it's like the Oscars and it's a week late, you missed it. You missed the boat. It's almost like the. It's like the first.

Michelle Guilford [00:05:27]:
The first day. That's about all you have. And that's the same with other trends. Like, I always think if I've scrolled on Instagram for 5 to 10 minutes and either seen that trend more than once or whether it's like a meme or, you know, like, around an event or not, but, like, am I already annoyed with it? Okay, then I'm not going to create more content about it. The second thing is, does this. Will this resonate with my audience? And does this resonate with me? And if the answer is no, don't do it. Like, there is no need to jump on a trend, especially if your energy is not there and is. And if your audience is going to be like, man, pass, you know, but if there's something that you get real excited about, that it would be fun and it would be easy to create, I say test it, you know, and.

Michelle Guilford [00:06:12]:
Because that's what we're doing is, like, just testing content. So that's. So I think it has. There's. There. There are accounts that are much more serious, Right. They are the experts, and they're like, hey, every day they show up and they do talking head videos. It would be weird if they were like.

Michelle Guilford [00:06:31]:
And then the Oscars. And let's. Let's talk about, like, what everyone wore, right? That would not. It would not fit into their brand or their niche. But there are current events that do happen that make sense. And so we just have to be aware of that. And also just be aware when, like, when you get that ick feeling, like, that's not for me, then you just don't do it, and that's totally fine. And that's why we get to build our own brands.

Michelle Guilford [00:06:53]:
Yeah.

Andréa Jones [00:06:53]:
I mean, I always say, like, you don't. You don't really know where a boundary is until you cross it or until that line is tested. And I think that's true for trends, too. Sometimes you don't know how cringe it is until you do it. But I will say this, too. Sometimes I love stuff, and my people don't like it. Like, I am a huge fan of RuPaul's Drag Race. Like, literally obsessing every season, every Spin off season.

Andréa Jones [00:07:14]:
I listen to podcasts about the show. Like, I am a little too far gone. And there was a point in time where, like, I even had, like, whole episodes with, like, stuff, spin off titles about Drag Race, and people are like, okay, Andrea, like, calm down. And so some of it is testing too. Like, I like it, but my people don't like it that much. So I have to. I have to use my Drag Race references sparingly. Otherwise people start tuning out.

Andréa Jones [00:07:39]:
And I think this is the beauty of marketing, right? Like, we can have fun with it. We can test things in play and stuff, but at the end of the day, we kind of have to look at the data and move forward. Did you. Do you have any examples of that where you're like, I really love this. And then people are like, okay, Michelle, calm down.

Michelle Guilford [00:07:55]:
Well, I think, like, I think with your specific example, it's really good because it makes you say, like, this is something that we have to figure out as personal brands is, like, what is the level of excitement that, like, for specific things that I want to bring? And does it make sense and does it enhance my brand, or does it take away from it? And like you said, sometimes you're like, ooh, got caught up. You know, got caught up. That doesn't resonate as much as I want. And I mean, like, I talk about this is not the same, but. But I am the coach for my girls softball teams, and I'm, like, talking about in stories all the time, and. And sometimes I'm like, oh, I don't know that everyone actually cares that much about this, you know, and it's okay to layer it in, and it's okay for it to be a thing, but just to be, like, just aware that we get to be very intentional about how we build our brands. And part of that intention is listening and saying, like, and. And just, like, feeling, reading the room, the energy, like, are people is this, is this getting, bringing people in or is it repelling people? And, and I mean like, sometimes it's like, well, maybe that does repel people.

Michelle Guilford [00:09:07]:
That's fine. Is it repelling the right people or is it, you know, people that are my people that I'm trying to talk to, Is it repelling them or is it bringing them closer? And so I think just like attention to that and just know that you're probably very few people, very few marketers, very, very few personal brands are going to just like ruin it with one post. There are people who have. And we could dive into that. But like, you know, but like, but like, but very few of us with these kind of things. We're not going to ruin, we're not going to ruin it. So we can test things out and see how it feels, See how it feels, the post, See how the energy that comes back feels.

Andréa Jones [00:09:47]:
Yeah, okay, I do want to get back to that ruining moment because I think we need to talk about that. But I do have a nosy question that popped up earlier for me, which is you talked about, you know, post about your girls soccer practices. Was it soccer or softball? Softball. And so this is like a boundaries question because I think some people, me included, feel hesitant to put our kids or our families online or even like our personal lives and things like that. So especially for personal brands, how do you decide this for yourself? Like, where are your own boundaries when it comes to social media?

Michelle Guilford [00:10:21]:
Really great question. So my, my kids, my content is not dependent on my kids. That is something I feel very passionate about and I'm not an influencer, so I can do that. Right. But we all have to figure out what that boundary is for ourselves. So it's mostly in my stories that I talk about softball and I don't share anyone else on the team. Right. And I don't share much about my girls.

Michelle Guilford [00:10:47]:
But one of the things, like connecting points with my audience is that I'm a mom and I'm, and I'm running an agency and a business and I still have time for softball. So it is a part of my story that I want to underline, but I don't, I share enough to know that it's happening. But I'm not like, I take my chill. My kids, I have five kids. I have a senior and high schooler. I mean senior in high school down to a nine year old. And so like it's one thing to show your kids when they're little, but I have my son's friends follow me on Instagram So I am very aware and I will ask them like, hey, you know, like if I'm sharing something about our family or sharing a family picture, I'm like, hey, you good with this or not? You know, and because they, I have an adult, he's 18, he's graduating and I have to respect that he's an adult. And I also have to respect that my kids are going to be adults and do I want people to know all of the stuff about them.

Michelle Guilford [00:11:51]:
Now with my softball teams, I have a 9 year old and a 12 year old, girls who both play softball. And that's about, I mean, you feel close, like you like know what's going on, but you don't actually know specifics. And that's kind of where my line is. And I ask my kids and like, do you want to, do you want me to share about this or not? You know, and because again, my content is not dependent on my kids. But I, but me as a mom, knowing people, knowing that I'm a mom and that I'm doing this, I want that energy to be like, and you can do it too. And so I do share some glimpses into my motherhood.

Andréa Jones [00:12:29]:
Yeah, I love that. And, and like I'm a new mom, so I have a three year old and a one year old and I love it. I know when you said five kids, like my heart panicked. Like, I was like, oh my God, never. I mean, bless you. Good for you.

Michelle Guilford [00:12:42]:
One is harder than five almost. I don't know, one's a lot.

Andréa Jones [00:12:46]:
Listen, two, I could make a whole podcast series on having two kids versus one, because I would, I feel like I was tricked. But I love them. I love them very much. No, but it is one of those things too, where for me right now, in this period in my life, when I look at people who I admire, like other business owners, other content creators, I am looking for people who have similar lives to me, right? People who I feel like I can follow their advice because, you know, they're in it with me. People who, like, it doesn't even have to be kids. Like, it could be, you know, maybe they're taking care of aging parents or they have chronic illness or, you know, there's something where it's like, you know, the Gary Vee model doesn't fit. Like, wake up at 6am post literally all day. Like we don't have time for that.

Andréa Jones [00:13:32]:
Like we're living our lives. And so that's why I like that you, that you reflect that back too. I want to circle back though. To this idea of posting content and getting a negative response because we've all seen it. We've all seen it. And I think that I have my own theories, but I'm curious to hear yours about, you know, when we do cross that line, when we do post something insensitive or we get feedback from our community that they're like, hey, we don't like this. How do we navigate those situations with like grace?

Michelle Guilford [00:14:04]:
Yeah, I think it's, I think that most, at least the audience that I am trying to build is pretty forgiving because they know that I'm just doing the best I can. So if I said something that was insensitive or that like looking back, I'm like, oof, that wasn't great. You know, I would hope that I, I mean public relations is my background. That's like what I majored in. And anyway, where how I first started in business and really just like owning up to it and being like, darn it, okay, let's move on. You know, like this is what I'm going to do better or whatever. But I think, I mean that's if we're doing something that maybe was hurtful or harmful, if it's like playful and it's just like, oh, that didn't resonate and like I got bad comments, then it's like, I will look and see where those comments are coming from. Because if they're my people and it's like, oh, Michelle, this is a bad showing.

Michelle Guilford [00:15:02]:
I'm going to look at that and self reflect and say, yeah, is that true? And what do I need to change? Because I will tell you, I am not here to be perfect. And I know that I am not, you know, and I'm very aware of that. And so I don't think I need to. Let's see. Not every comment that is given to me has the same value to me because you have passersby who have no idea who I am. One of my first viral reels a couple years ago was like, listen, I was newly back to the gym. I was rowing on my like on the rowing machine and doing a real bad job of it, but by darn I was there. Anyway, so I just posted a B roll video of me rowing with like something else on the screen and my.

Michelle Guilford [00:15:42]:
That blew up because people are real passionate about rowing form apparently.

Andréa Jones [00:15:47]:
Well, now you know, now I know.

Michelle Guilford [00:15:50]:
And every time I'm like, okay, I'm better than I was two and a half years ago. But it's also, you see, like those moments are funny. Because I'm like, I mean, that means very little about me as a person, how I row. So those are the things that I'm looking at is like, is this. There's a self reflection. Are the. Is this from someone that I value their opinion, who. Who knows who I am? And if not, then I'm like, But if so, I say, oh, okay, like, what do I need to learn from that? And how can I do better and be better or just maybe be clearer? Because I've said some things where people have said, oh, Michelle, have you thought about this? And I was like, oh, we're on the same page.

Michelle Guilford [00:16:28]:
But I obviously wasn't clear enough. And so then that helps me refine my message. And I can't be. I think my job as a content creator and as an educator and as a thought leader is to consistently and constantly be refining my message. And so that's going to take like, refinement doesn't come from everyone saying, you're great. You know, keep saying it. That those edges are knocked off only through people pushing back and saying, like, how you said that wasn't quite right. And so just being, like, humble and aware of that, I think just goes such a long way.

Andréa Jones [00:17:08]:
Yeah, 100%. And I think that this is actually a good problem to have, because when we're putting ourselves out there online and people are having a response to it, that means they're paying attention, right? That means our content actually got reached by people. And so we're getting that feedback loop, that positive feedback loop or negative feedback loop. At least we're getting some sort of traction and engagement. But I want to talk about the other side of this, because a problem that I'm hearing a lot of people have right now, especially on Instagram, is that that dang algorithm is not showing our dang posts. Right?

Michelle Guilford [00:17:41]:
So what do we do?

Andréa Jones [00:17:42]:
Like, is it too crowded? What's the deal?

Michelle Guilford [00:17:45]:
Well, some really great changes happened with the algorithm, and the algorithm is not out to get you. So I first, like, I need people to just breathe that in. The algorithm is not out to get you.

Andréa Jones [00:17:54]:
Put it on a T shirt, Put.

Michelle Guilford [00:17:55]:
It on a T shirt, Write it down every morning, the mantra. But what we have to understand is, yes, there are more people creating online, and there are more people online than ever. And on Instagram and the algorithm, the whole goal of the algorithm is to understand who you are and to play matchmaker with people who it thinks will like your content. The algorithm is actually trying to match us up with the right people. And there's some things that get in the way of that. And one of those is that we don't niche down. We're not clear on our content. So I'm all about like looking at my content, saying, am I attracting the right person? Am I consistent in my messaging? Am I using keywords so Instagram understands what I'm talking about and am I doing that on a consistent basis? And if I'm not, then that's on me, that the algorithm doesn't understand me, you know, and then, so I will look that I will look at that, then I'll also look at what does the algorithm want to.

Michelle Guilford [00:18:53]:
So the algorithm, especially for our content, it is looking for engagement cues. So some of those are. And, well, the most valuable ones are sharing and liking. That's what they told us. Then we have commenting and saving. Those are next. But you have to think about, okay, if I want my content to be seen by more people, then yeah, shares make sense, right? Because that person is sharing it with someone else or sharing it to their stories. And so more people are seeing it.

Michelle Guilford [00:19:21]:
And so I need to start creating content with that in mind. So we have this huge tool, we have this huge platform that has millions and millions of people on it and a huge portion are your audience. And we have this algorithm that's trying to figure out, like, who are you and how can I show you to the right people so more people stay on Instagram. So it is worth understanding and learning how Instagram works for you and how the algorithm works and then creating specific content that will work on Instagram. So short form content, there are skills that, like, creating short form content is a skill. It's not a gift bestowed from heaven. It is a skill that you, I mean, yes, there's people that are better at it, naturally, but this is a skill that you can learn. And so if you want to start using, using Instagram to its fullest, you've got to start paying attention to how am I creating short form videos.

Michelle Guilford [00:20:15]:
Do I have a hook within the first 3 seconds? Visual and written hook? Is it something that is. Have I been like, have I been ruthless in editing it so that it's not longer than it needs to be? And my watch time goes up. We have to start thinking more like many YouTube creators, because if you're a YouTube creator, you're thinking about all of this all the time, right? But for Instagram, it's, we're getting better at search, the search engine's getting better. They, they promise it'll continue to get better. And they. And the algorithm's getting better. So we have to be committed to being better content creators. And the thing that is the coolest thing about the algorithm now, this switch happened or started to happen a year ago, and it finished up in, I think, February, where it does not matter how many followers you have, it's a content based algorithm.

Michelle Guilford [00:21:07]:
So if your content is good, no matter how many followers you have, it can go to millions. And I just want you to think, anytime, any other time in the world when we have had this opportunity, this option to show up, create a 30 second video that takes us nine hours. Just kidding. It doesn't have to be. But, you know, you create this little video and it can reach millions of people, all while you're sitting at your daughter's softball game. Okay, okay, Maybe I'd stop complaining and figure out how to make it work. Right? And it's a lot of work. And Instagram, I think one of the biggest problems or the hardest thing to overcome with Instagram is we consume a lot of content as creators, we consume a lot personally, and then it's really hard to switch our brain around to using it professionally.

Michelle Guilford [00:21:51]:
And so that switch is really hard. And so we either we have a couple things coming at us right when we're using it for business, we have in our brain, like, you're wasting time. You're wasting time. You're on Instagram. Look at, look at what your screen time is, you know, and you're wait. And it's like, yeah, you have that voice going. Especially if you're a mom or you have like, you have kids or other responsibilities. You feel like you shouldn't be on social media, it's bad.

Michelle Guilford [00:22:15]:
But then you have. But it's like, oh, but it's actually one of the marketing arms of my business. And if it were any other marketing arm, we would take it seriously. Right. We would look at it differently and start looking at analytics and we'd be showing up in different ways based on the responses of our audience. And then we start using Instagram as a business instead of as a consumer. And instead of like feeling like it's pulling us over and we don't know what to do.

Andréa Jones [00:22:40]:
Yeah, okay. I know you were joking when you said a 30 second video takes nine hours. But my brain latched onto that because you guys. Okay, so here's the thing. I feel like you, you nailed it when you said creating content is a skill that can be learned. But what I've seen in my experience is that as adults especially, we all want to learn something new. Like, we just want to know. We just want to open it up and go, I know how to use this.

Andréa Jones [00:23:01]:
And then we don't. We get frustrated and it does take some time, but once we do get there, we can create content. But I'm curious about, you know, you specifically and then also your clients, because I do think marketers, we spend more time on social media than. Than, like, I was gonna say normal people. Are we normal? No.

Michelle Guilford [00:23:19]:
I don't know. We.

Andréa Jones [00:23:20]:
Yeah, we spend more time than normal people. So how much time are you spending? And then how much time do you recommend other people spend on Insta?

Michelle Guilford [00:23:28]:
Wow. How much time am I spending? I'm pro. I'm at least spending a couple hours a day on Instagram. That is easy. Like either creating content, consuming content, looking at my clients, you know, there's at least a couple hours because, you know, as we're strategizing for clients, I am researching, I'm looking at data. You know, it's just a little bit different. I. As far as what other people should do, I need.

Michelle Guilford [00:23:54]:
I need you to make a conscious decision and not even a decision, but just an awareness of how much marketing are you? Like, how much is Instagram a part of your marketing strategy? So if it is a hundred percent a part of your market, like, that's your whole marketing strategy is Instagram. Buckle up, sit down. Like, you need to get good at it. If you are paying ads and like, that's how you're getting, and you just need Instagram to be a resume, then you can, you know, you can scale back. If you are a business and you're big enough to hire a team, you have to think about, like, am I going to hire workers or am I going to hire skilled people and am I willing to invest in this? Because, you know, you can find people who know how to use Instagram, right? Have you, you know, and they just show up and they post stuff and you're like, that's not a strategy. And so we have to start looking at Instagram differently. Like, it is serious and it is a hundred percent. Like, if it's 100% of our marketing strategy, then that.

Michelle Guilford [00:24:58]:
That changes things. So if you're. So you have to look at your budget, whether that's time or money, and also, like, what are you expecting Instagram to do? And is your energy and time and money matching what you need that marketing channel to do?

Andréa Jones [00:25:12]:
Yes, yes. All of it has to flow because it's. There's a hierarchy here. You can't go, like, I'm going to spend equal amounts of time on Instagram as everything else in my business if it's not a priority. Right. I love that. So what do you think consistency looks like, especially for the solo entrepreneurs, the small business owners who are out here on these Instagram streets trying to figure it out. What does consistency look like?

Michelle Guilford [00:25:38]:
Streets are hard out there.

Andréa Jones [00:25:39]:
Yeah.

Michelle Guilford [00:25:42]:
Consistency looks like. I mean, I'm going to go back to my last answer, but it's going to look like what you can budget for. So I want you to make a conscious decision. A lot of people are like, well, I can only post three times a week. Cool. I love that. Do that, you know, and you, if you understand your audience, if you've created enough content that you know what your audience likes, I do think you can create less content. If you don't know and you don't know how to create content, you don't know how to do hooks, you don't know how to edit, you don't know how the type of thing that your audience is going to resonate with.

Michelle Guilford [00:26:20]:
Then I say create a ton of content. Like, just put stuff out there, because you don't know what works yet and you don't know how to do it. And I say that because if you just like numbers, right? Analytics, like, if you post two times a week, okay, that's eight times, eight times in a month. And then you have someone who's posting five times a week, that's 20, you know, 20 posts. So they are going to get better two and a half times faster than you are because you haven't put in the time to do it. And you're also like, as I'm looking at analytics and as clients, come on. I'm like, well, okay, the analytics for someone who's posting eight times a month, there's just only so much information I can get compared to someone who's doing like 20, 30 posts a month. And so again, that doesn't mean everyone should post every day because that might stress someone out and they become homeless on these Instagram streets.

Michelle Guilford [00:27:14]:
But I, I don't want you to do that. But I do think that you need to start thinking, like, real seriously about, do I know what my audience likes and am I good? Do I know what I'm good at yet and how my voice is best used? If the answer is no, let's figure it out. Let's take a month, let's test some stuff out and put a ton of content out there. I do like, a real love Challenge every six months where I'm like, hey, this is the audio you're doing, this is the hook you're doing. And like, this, like, I just tell people what to post. And the people who show up for those 30 days, and they do it, like, they change. Either their numbers change or they, like, they change because they suddenly know how to do stuff and they realize that they've been making content creation way too hard. So you gotta get.

Michelle Guilford [00:28:03]:
You gotta get consistent, like, with knowing exactly, like, what is your goal with Instagram? And then what. What can you. What's your budget, time and money that you can put towards Instagra? Instagram.

Andréa Jones [00:28:14]:
Yeah. Okay. Well, we've been talking a lot about, like, micro video content, the Instagram reels specifically. But one of the things too, about Instagram that I think I feel so bad for, like, new people to Instagram, because if you're just logging in for the first time, it's like, okay, we have reels, we have carousels, we have static posts, we have stories. I know they're getting rid of notes, but those are their broadcast channels. Like, what the heck? So when you're talking about, you know, reels, for instance, do you think that's where we should put most of our energy right now? There's also been a rumor that carousel posts are making a comeback. Like, what are you seeing on your end?

Michelle Guilford [00:28:47]:
So carousels are making a comeback, and if you put music behind them, then they are able to show up on a reels feed, in your reels feed. So if you're doing carousels, add some music, whether you turn it down or whatever, but then you can get in the reels. So the reason why reels are usually where I tell people to start is because. Because the reels algorithm is different than the other algorithms in that it's pushing your content faster and easier out to people who don't follow you yet. And so if you want to grow, like, do that. But carousels are coming around. And especially now that carousels are being able to be used in the real feed. You just got to make sure as you're creating these carousels that you can say, like, why would anyone care about this? Because a lot of people are just, like, using them as 2010 blog posts.

Michelle Guilford [00:29:36]:
Like, five steps to creating a diet plan. You know, the 2010 blog post, I feel called out. I just know it personally. I just know it personally. Anyway, and so, like, you know where it's like, no one's going to click that. Like, five, 10, you know, five steps to your next morning routine. Those hooks don't work anymore because they're just like, telling you there's no curiosity gap. There's no bringing you in.

Michelle Guilford [00:30:02]:
There's no, like, why, what's in it for me? And so I think that sometimes unless you're a great writer and you already know, like, the stories that you're going to tell and you can bring people with you, and if you're that side, then carousels are going to be great for you. If you're like, writing and telling stories, you know, like, I don't want to do that, then reels are going to be easier.

Andréa Jones [00:30:22]:
Yeah. Okay, interesting. No, the 2010 blog post is like, so, like, I knew exactly what you're talking about. I was like, oh. So I think this is what I've been talking. I've been talking about a lot too, that that 2010 blog post line is going to stay with me because it is the shift from how to content to how I content. So I think this is where personal brands are really shining through. Because we don't need more information.

Andréa Jones [00:30:48]:
We're in the age of information overload. Like, we literally don't need more how to. We want to know how you specifically do it. Like, so when I talk about things like, you know, I wake up, I don't feel like posting. What am I doing? That's what I'm doing specifically versus, like, if you wake up and you don't feel posting, here's what you need to do. And it feels very like, you should eat your vegetables. And so I feel like that's really. The 2010 blog post.

Andréa Jones [00:31:13]:
Five is like, eat your vegetables versus 2025. The elevated is like, okay, I don't feel like eating my vegetables. I'm going to show you what I'm doing. And I feel like that, like, reality TV show, like, let's go with me behind the scenes and let's do all of this. I feel like that's really what's working right now with content. Is there anything else that you're seeing that really stands out to you with, like, like, oh, this is the type of content that's really performing well right now.

Michelle Guilford [00:31:36]:
Yeah, I mean, I think it's exactly what you're saying because we can find any information we want and we can go to ChatGPT and it will get a summary of all the information out there. But what we really want are we want experts that will curate it for us. So we want, like, we want someone else that lives a life that we want to live to tell Us, what works for them. You know, like, that is. That's, that's what this is all about, right? Is that we've suddenly, we. We have AI. We can all find out whatever we want, and that type of information will be less valuable than what you're saying. Right? Which is like, listen, I got two kids, you know, like, your life.

Michelle Guilford [00:32:20]:
And explaining like, this is. I, you know, I'm recording podcasts. This is what I do before my podcast to make sure I'm ready or whatever. Because then we're like, oh, that's how she does it. And my life looks like hers, or I want my life to look like hers. And so as AI becomes. I mean, it's already huge, right? But we're going to see it integrated so much more. And really it's going to come down to that personal connection and building, like, being that curator for people.

Michelle Guilford [00:32:49]:
Like, listen, yeah, you can, you can go get the 10 steps from ChatGPT, but let me tell you, the, like, how I do it as this type of person. So that's where I see things going, is like, the facts are going to be good and you're going to have to know them. We're going to have to know more, because it's the application that's really going to be the valuable part.

Andréa Jones [00:33:09]:
Yeah, I feel like this is just the age of AI too. Is that, like, the knowledge piece is not going to be enough. It's how we apply it that's really going to make the difference. It can be scary. It can be scary. But I do think there are ways that AI can help us in this next stage. To me, it reminds me of when I was in the second grade or third grade. I distinctly remember one of my teachers making me do math, and I was like, but I have this calculator.

Andréa Jones [00:33:36]:
Can I use the calculator? And she was like, no, you have to know how to do it because you're not going to be carrying a calculator in your pocket all the time. And now look, look at me now, Ms. Anderson. I have a calculator in my pocket all the time. And so that's how AI feels to me right now, where it's like, some people are like, oh, you have to do the manual work of it all. And I'm like, yeah, I know how to do the manual work. Don't get me wrong. But, like, if there's a calculator, I'm gonna use a calculator.

Andréa Jones [00:34:00]:
So I say all that. I'm curious how you are using AI, AKA the calculator in your, like, marketing day to day.

Michelle Guilford [00:34:08]:
Yeah. So, well, sometimes I have little chats with ChatGPT and I'm like, hey, this is a decision I'm. I'm making. And I list all the details and then it comes back to me and it's like, Michelle, I think you already know the answer, but this is what I recommend. It's funny. Anyway, that did happen, like, where, like, I need to talk through something because I'm a verbal processor. And so, like, so I have it on my phone. I just speak into it and I'm like, hey, here are the details of my business.

Michelle Guilford [00:34:35]:
I also am restructuring some of my products. And so I was like, hey, let me tell you what my products are. These are the price points. This is my revenue goal. Can you make a map for me this year of when I should launch and how many I need to sell of each to get there? And it can. Like, those are things that I'm going to go. I would have figured out, right? But it would have taken me 20 minutes and I'd had to have stopped and pulled out my phone calculator. But this, I'm like, I'm on the go.

Michelle Guilford [00:35:02]:
Like, I'm in the car. I was running errand, like, taking my kids to practice, you know, doing stuff. And I was like, oh, I got to figure out, like, my numbers. And so I was just talking to it. So that's something that is. I was like, that's just a practical thing. I. I've had quite a few, like, speeches that I have had to give the last a month or so.

Michelle Guilford [00:35:22]:
And I would write. I would write it and write, like, sections and I would say, okay, chat GPT. I need, I need you to make this more. Because I'm let's. Because my background is pr. I'm a very, like, newspaper writer where I'm like, these are the facts. And so I was like, could you add a little bit for storytelling and make this a little stronger? And it just shifted it a little bit, but it made it stronger. I've been doing the same thing with.

Michelle Guilford [00:35:49]:
So I'm the first draft and been doing that with substack and just saying like, hey, this is a story. This is, you know, and because I'm a verbal processor and I have my own podcast, like, speaking, it is easier than writing it for me, so it can write down whatever I say, add some things. So. And I'm using it for that kind of thing, for editing my content, that kind of stuff, as well as analyzing data and yeah, just making and streamlining the process, which. Which feels scary, I think, right now, because it feels like it's taking away the creativity, you know, because it's like, well, we're not creating all of it. And I'm like, no, I'm not creating the dumb parts. The parts that I don't want to do. I do not want to do that part.

Michelle Guilford [00:36:33]:
Right. And it's actually opening up me up to be more creative because, like, those little things that are not necessarily. Maybe not my strong suit or, like, stuff that, like, speaking is easier. Speaking it into existence is easier than typing it into existence for me. And so I'm using my skills. Like, I'm just better at speaking it out than. And it's turning it into something that can be written or, you know, could be published and I can edit it. And so what I decided to do is I'm like, listen, we're all scared of AI and we feel overwhelmed by it.

Michelle Guilford [00:37:07]:
And so I was. I'm like, I'm going to just start using it. I'm just going to use it, and if I think about it, I'm going to pick it up, download it on your phone, and I'm going to use it. It. And just doing that has opened me up to, like, more and more ways that I can use it to streamline my business and to take away some of the unnecessary parts to creating.

Andréa Jones [00:37:28]:
Yeah, I think that's the key. Streamlining it. Yeah, it's faster. But again, it's like our calculator. Sure, you can be all precious about doing long division manually. Good for you. I'm glad you could do that. But real life, everyday stuff, I mean, as long as we get to the same answer and we, you know, we're still using our human brains, I think.

Andréa Jones [00:37:51]:
I think it's great. Okay, so as we wrap up this conversation, one of the things I want to ask you about is really this mindset piece when it comes to creating content, and especially now, like, this episode comes out, we're heading into summer. Those of us with the kids, we're like, all right, summer mode. So over the next 30 days, what's something that we can think about? A mental shift that we can make to really strengthen our approach to creating content on Instagram and really everywhere in our marketing. Marketing, Yeah.

Michelle Guilford [00:38:21]:
I would definitely put it on the calendar. So as creatives, I don't really believe in being like, this is how you create content. So some people really like to batch, and other people, like, that makes them want to die. Like, batching a whole ton of content. And there's obviously some power and some benefits to batching, but if you dread it all the time, then I don't love that. So one of the things is like, like, you either say, on Mondays, I do all my video and I'm just going to, like, I'm going to get my makeup on, I'm going to get ready and we're going to do all the video and do a bunch all at once and just video it and batch it in the different stages of the content creation process. I also know someone, some people who like to, like, just schedule on their calendar that every day I have 30 minutes, that I'm going to create something so that it's more a part of their, like, everyday routine. But it doesn't happen unless you put it on a schedule and on a calendar and treat it like in a meeting that you would show up for.

Michelle Guilford [00:39:20]:
Because what usually happens is you want to create on Instagram, but then you don't, right? And then you get to the end of the week and you're like, oh, man, I should have posted. And then you scroll and then you scroll on Instagram for like an hour looking for ideas, and then you find something and then you're like, I'm just going to post this. And so you just post it. And then you're like, that didn't do well. And then like, instagram's the worst. The algorithm hates me. Right? And you actually haven't taken time to create intentional strategic content or, or calculate a time and put in your calendar time when you're going to analyze what is working and what isn't. So as far as that goes, you need to start treating Instagram like it's part of your business and not just a last thing like, that you put on, you know, the end of your list that you're like, well, I know this is important, but I really hate it because the algorithm hates me because I'm not getting what I want.

Michelle Guilford [00:40:15]:
And it's like, well, if you showed up on Instagram or showed up for Instagram, like, you're showing up for, like, creating your product or creating your courses or teaching your whatever, you know, whatever type of entrepreneur you are, then your Instagram content would change. And so would how Instagram can help and serve your business 100%.

Andréa Jones [00:40:33]:
It's your responsibility as a business owner to treat marketing seriously in your business. I totally agree. And I love that you said, you know, you can kind of play with it, whether you like batching or you like doing things day by day. I mean, there are different seasons in my life where I do both. Like sometimes I'm like batch queen, like right now, batching all the way. Like makeup. Every day is not for me right now, but there are some days where, where periods in my life where, you know, I like to create content every day. That's actually my preferred method of doing it, is creating content every day.

Andréa Jones [00:41:03]:
But like with a one year old at home, where I'm literally recording podcast episodes while she's napping, it's not going to happen every day. So for me, I gotta, I gotta plan ahead. I gotta plan ahead. So, you know, you get to decide this. You gotta treat your marketing seriously. I love that you, that you emphasize that. Okay, so for everyone listening who's like, I love this. I'm limited on time.

Andréa Jones [00:41:23]:
I know you've got, Michelle, this like weekly trend thingy. Plus plus. I love how you not only give the trends, but then you tell us exactly how to apply them. Tell me more about it.

Michelle Guilford [00:41:36]:
Yes, absolutely. So I have a membership that you can join and I'll give you a week for free to test it out where we are sending like the, the trends that are happening that week. We send that out and then with examples and a description of how you can apply it to your business. Because, I mean, looking for the right trend is actually the worst waste of time that like, it's so hard, right? You go on there and you're like, okay, I like this, but how many times has it been used and like, how can I apply it to your business? So we're streamlining that for you so that you can like, just start creating content in a lot, like a lot faster. So that's called the Insta Content Club. We'd love to have you. And if you use mindful marketing, you can get a week for free.

Andréa Jones [00:42:19]:
I love that. Okay, we're gonna put that link and the code in the description. Onlinedrea.com slash 363 Michelle, thank you so much for being on the show today.

Michelle Guilford [00:42:29]:
Thank you so much. It was so fun.

Andréa Jones [00:42:31]:
Yes. And thank you, dear listener, for tuning in to another episode of the Mindful Marketing Podcast. If you love this conversation and you want to learn more about how to apply marketing in your business, come to our Social Media Day Summit. Okay. We're doing a free Social Media Day Summit, a live panel on June 30th. That's a Monday. Okay. Come join me and some special guests where we talk about the state of social media, especially y' all keep talking about the algorithm.

Andréa Jones [00:42:56]:
We're gonna talk about the algorithm. We're gonna talk about AI we're gonna talk about it all. You can get answered, but you got to show up live for that. Go to onlinedres.com slash smd that's social media day smd. And that link will be in the show notes as well. I have another episode coming for you next Tuesday. Stay tuned for that. I'll see you then.

Andréa Jones [00:43:15]:
Bye for now.